Full Transcript below. Here you can find the condensed show notes.
Scott Ingram:
Thanks for listening to this episode of the sales success stories podcast. I had a really great conversation with Debe Rapson who is and has been the number one seller at demand based for the last seven years in a row. Unfortunately there was an equipment failure in this interview that I didn’t discover until we were done. My post production team did as much as they could with what they had but it’s really tough this kills me because this was an awesome conversation and you’re going to have to prepare yourself for this to be really challenging, and kind of squint your ears if you will to really hear what Deb has to share.
If you don’t want to put up with that I will totally understand and we have a plan to fix this. Deb has been gracious enough to agree to a do over a conversation that’s not been scheduled yet but as soon as that new interview was recorded and edited. I’m going to post it here in place of this episode and will probably turn this current version into a piece of bonus content in the sales success community. Because there’s no way we’re going to have exactly the same conversation twice. So it’s your call. Listen now or just wait until the new version gets posted. Either way if you sign up for the mailing list at top one dot F.M. as soon as that new interview with the level of quality and clarity of a dead deserves is live I’ll let you know. So with this giant disclaimer here is my conversation with Debe Robson.
You’re listening to the sales success stories podcast. When we deconstruct world class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve to learn more visit us a top one dot F.M. here’s your host Scott Ingram
Today I have the pleasure of sitting down with Debe Rapson at her home in Oakland California. I don’t always get to do these interviews in person and it’s a real treat. When it works out, Deb is the number one, is director of strategic accounts at demand base and has been for the last seven years running. Welcome to the show. Deb and thanks for having me over.
Debe Rapson:
Thanks so
Scott Ingram:
So what we do with the show is [00:02:00] rather than starting at the beginning with the I don’t want to say they’re boring details but the more inane details I like to throw as much value out as we can. So if folks want to drop off after ten minutes the research still going to take something away. So I’ve asked you to kind of prepare a little bit and share the three things that have really set you apart and allowed you to be literally at the top for the last seven years so I let you tackle that however you like.
Debe Rapson:
Yeah thanks I appreciate it fun to be here with you. So the, I think you know all of those attributes honestly, really revolve around doing the right thing by a customer more of prospects.
So it’s all about auxiliary my personal values through into my business. I will probably say that first is just into my genuine curiosity. In caring what peoples business is and their challenge and their opinion is, you know what’s hurting, what’s making them not get to the results where they trying to get to.
So you know people can tell you’re asking genuine questions and you’re probing broad and deep. They appreciate the fact that you care and I think that goes through when it’s really genuine. So listening and pitching is probably the number one thing. I think that kind of set me apart and also keeps the consistency that me being with the number one reps.
The second that I want to say is probably diligently doing the things that I say that I’m going to do. So just you know that is to following up or sticking to my promise to the client this is all along the way the cycle doing what I’m say I’m going to do. My clients trust me because of that and then they just deliver and then I know [00:04:00] that make them look good. And so that credibility of that is really you know key piece and then I would probably say the last is relay to my nature is that I’m a challenger.
I love problem solving and I love e-tantalizing and I also like to keeping info’s, and you know and always kind of relay to use the years of experience and wisdom. When a client tells me you know with their problems are and I’m always happy to share it with them through my experience with other clients you know how I can really help them achieve their goals.
Sometimes what that means is that you have to push back and say you know what this is not the right way to do it. And people got egos so that can be challenging.
I’m probably won my biggest deals and probably my most challenging deals that you know that are kind of the biggest and the most interesting deals I’m really won them. I’m telling my client they are on the wrong track you know with their expecting to do isn’t really going to work out well for them.
And once you do that or you walk away from a deal because it’s really not the right fit begins so much credibility and then in account. In my opinion it’s kind of one of those sharpest tools in my toolbox.
Scott Ingram:
And I’m guessing that you’re doing that in a really disinterested way. Right so you’re making that recommendation. Even if the answer they think is right is your answer.
Debe Rapson:
It’s that way
Scott Ingram:
Yeah
Debe Rapson:
Yeah, yeah I mean for sure I mean that’s you know that’s part of what you have to do. Yeah.
Scott Ingram:
Yes so really thinking through what’s, what’s right for the customer and obviously I mean going back to your first point about. The questioning Debe and I’ve been sitting [00:06:00] around her kitchen table having a great conversation and it’s just your nature right I mean you, you are generally curious and asking great questions and I think the point to really underscore about what you said is without pitching I think too often when you’re being curious often sales folks are being curious about what’s the next thing I’m going to say right I’m, I’m in my own head trying to figure out what that thing is and I’m not really being curious and really listening to the questioning and things like that.
Debe Rapson:
People think that I find an excuse and people understand when you are genuine so that’s what I think is the most important things, is that you really wanted to learn you know what are those things that are struggles for them and how’s it impacting them.
So one of the things that I see that so many reps do is during discovery they pitch so they get a valuable commission and start pitching in that number one world that I held for years and years is now pitch during discovery and I recall a hourly discovery with a client so I might hang on a little bit on what we do so that we see that the end at nineteen seventeen sit at the table with that but the rest of our discussion is all about listening it is not about my intelligent so that I can for legist go and then it’s really genuine curiously and it comes through.
Scott Ingram;
Yeah so discovery is discovery.
Debe Rapson:
Exactly
Scott Ingram:
Great stuff; Well this is an exciting start before we dig a little bit deeper. Let me give a quick thank you to our inaugural sponsor who is nudge; Nudge is a modern sales platform that leverage is relationship strength to help you find and keep your best customers. I’ve been using nudge myself since a pretty early beta version about a year ago and they continue to add a lot of value to that. So if you Valorie value relationship the way I do. Speaking [00:08:00] of relationships. Deb you probably know that nudge was founded by Paul Toshema and Steve Wood so Deb and I have a little bit of history going back. Oh although we were literally just meeting, she was it eloquent a few years before I was, so interesting starts, so anyway you can sign up for nudge for free at need nudge dot com That’s N E E D N U D G E dot com they are, they are so you know it’s one of those things a great product comes from a great team.
It’s not always just the technology but there’s some really, really interesting thinking behind what they’re doing in the got a great blog too and in fact one of the things they’re doing is they’re taking. They’re just great partner it’s this isn’t just hey Scott you’re somebody have some fun. They, they really are great partner in the show and for each of these conversations they’re creating about two blog posts out of them that at least that’s the that’s the plan so go, go check out their blog go sign up. Go get on the service for free. It’s awesome. So Deb, talk about your role and how you got to be number one to start with
Debe Rapson:
So I came into the Demand base you know their strategy counts for but that’s not where it starts and I’m actually came in with Josen a couple of hand full accounts where you will selling a different product but we had a different type of vision of where we were going and that’s really the vision that Demand base has today around the learning skills ability of account base marketing.
And so then I join the company years ago they didn’t had they never had a prize level press there they kind of bid market press and they were selling context. And they had a vision of this IQ matching and using it as a service to as you see on your website.
And so very quickly I came in and I of course use my network from my alder quantise and when [00:10:00] it is little to a couple of clients, very quickly and do some far exactly that team and how quickly it is, it will understand their business and grow out of business score rapid very quickly and do deals the company had never seen before. So I had been having fourteen nap pounds ever since kind of one upping myself.
All along the way trying to bring top players to demand base is the first of their C.E.O.’s people and you know I feel I play very intricate part in growing our business and we have it in developing as a very solid company. You know how you get to number one is I think a little bit more of a process and then how that happens.
I don’t think that you just have a breakthrough I think you had natural ability and some luck and you know what to do with it.
Scott Ingram:
Yeah now how big was the demand base when you first joined?
Debe Rapson:
Demand base was eighteen people and Julie.
Scott Ingram:
Wow
Debe Rapson:
Yeah this is the biggest risk of my career smallest company and I ever worked for with and today just around fifteen.
Scott Ingram:
Wow and I mean obviously still number one. Can you qualify those results for us; I mean what it means today to be number one at demand base?
Debe Rapson:
What is it mean, well it means two hundred percent of my plan year over year really for the last seven years and it means selling strategically in both customers and you know as well as new acquisitions prospects and well [00:12:00] you know like most top sales people I mean more of the top level executives of their company.
Scott Ingram:
Sure now can you give me any more than that? Fair enough.
So Deb what’s your origin story how did you get into sales because you’ve been playing this game for a couple of days.
Debe Rapson:
Yeah almost thirty years but I do not let age myself I started when I was about six.
Scott Ingram:
Six yeah
Debe Rapson:
Great so and my story is actually a funny one. And when I was in, so I was in you know, like sold retail back when I think I was a teenager, and when I got in you know, I was in college and I’m thinking about what my next step is I thought I was going into broadcast journalism.
And I went back to work I did an interim ship in NT out listen WGPTI radio and did broadcast journalism. I met with the GM and sold myself into interim ship and worked for about a month doing broadcaster journalism where I was interview people and it was fun but the scary thing is I’m get kind of bored. I’m bored with the news but it’s not the interim.
So I went to the G.M. and I religion in the always he can pulled me assignment and he goes how was that going, and I said you know I’m kind of bored and which is pretty ball see it.
Scott Ingram:
Right that could be a career limiting move
Debe Rapson:
I know and he said you know he said, he might think about you, he said you a sales rep, he said you got all the capability to being a natural sales rep, and he said I want you to go buy with my top rep for the next two weeks and come back to me and tell me what you think.
And so I did and she had one of those really old this is dating like; self but it is funny one of those really old cell phones that had a hand piece [00:14:00] and the cord that you pick up she had in her phone in her car.
Scott Ingram:
In die car
Debe Rapson
And she would was taking people out to lunch and we going to their office and running around that’s in the office and I’m just immediately knew after the first day this is it for me, because I don’t like to be in the office I like to be out talking with people getting to know them and that’s seeing internal but I loss natural curiosity things and I went back to Mr Playger and said you were right and that set me off to my career and my first job as the radio station and the bay area which I hold cold and for in thirty days I’m moving here I had myself a job and had coffee at ten fifty and that’s where that all began.
Scott Ingram:
Nice, nice and here you are holding a microphone again so it’s funny how things comes full come full circle.
Debe Rapson:
Brings you back to the day
Scott Ingram:
That’s awesome. I mean it’s funny I think there’s so few people that really think about very you know what you want to be when you grow up. Nobody has ever said, not that I’m aware of. I want to be in sales and it seems like we all somehow accidentally stumble upon it situational or I mean I think it’s pretty cool that you got pushed into it and it is funny as I think back that happened to me a couple of times as well but I didn’t I didn’t listen to it right away, right. I didn’t I didn’t quite hear that. So it’s cool I think that opportunity not just oh you should be in sales. What do you do with that but go go. Be in the field go see what this actually is because I think that there are there’s a ton of misconceptions about what this is we were having a conversation just before this about and I think it’s really emerging as a theme of the show just in the handful of interviews I’ve done so far.
What we think this top sales persona is [00:16:00] right. All of those attribute that we. Put on to that I think many of them are ridiculous. And so I think it’s very interesting and hopefully we really start to hear from this is what it’s really like this is this is how somebody who’s really doing it is thinking and the position they are in just a real push you’re, you’re sharing your thoughts on this.
Debe Rapson:
What did you think this is?
Scott Ingram:
Good question. Who’s doing the interview here? I think that it’s very like super type a super aggressive and what we’re finding from the show is I was having a conversation on the drive up with actually a sales mentor a friend of mine who was saying some very flattering things about the show is really liking it.
The majority of the people I’ve talked to so far have actually been interviewed. Right so it’s very very-very counter a lot of things you would expect I mean you have to work really hard to make this work. It’s sort of a given like that’s table stakes. But it’s, it’s applying your own style and being who you are, and leveraging those strengths and not trying to, and I hope your folks that listen to this. I mean hopefully would build a little bit of an non sales audience to maybe for some empathy we both work in the marketing space I think would be useful for some marketers to hear like forget about what you think is going on because that outward persona sometimes does, does suggest that that’s what it is, but what’s really happening. What’s really happening in the field? What’s really happening in our heads is something really, really different and I want people to understand that and realize that it’s attainable. They don’t have to become something that they’re not right. They need to be more of who they are.
Debe Rapson:
Right that’s exactly the key, exactly who you are and that’s one things that tackles you yeah.
Scott Ingram:
So Deb let’s talk about a challenging time maybe, in a place where [00:18:00] you were struggling. Where, where you had to what was going on.
Debe Rapson:
Yes I thought about that when you send that over and I would say one of that the times I think about when I failed, is you know for example when I was once laid off. And being laid off is kind of one of those situations where, being laid off is one of those situations where especially when you’re a top rep.
It’s hard to even conceptualize and really trying to understand what happened. What were the issues and failing at that you make too much money. So they going lay you off you a top rep and you make too much money, or when you being hired and someone doesn’t like you or doesn’t want you to be followed the kind of the way that it should be. Those are probably some of the biggest challenges like I can in my career and some of those are painful.
I think learning kind of pick yourself up, just off your big girl pants or your big boy pants and get back in again it’s probably the hardest thing I’ve had to do in my career.
So most people think about you know sales people who are let go, because they’re not performing. I’ve actually been let go, twice when I was the top rep and it wasn’t necessarily either of them really for political reasons or because I wasn’t liked or any of those things.
Those are probably some of the toughest times in my life to figure out how to pick myself up, you know and reinvent and move forward. You [00:20:00] know and be successful but I always go back to thinking about how’s sometimes those things are bad luck, good fortune, because I always push forward make more money, and be happier in those situations that happen but they’re a little bit shuddering, because you think that if you’re doing all the right things nothing is going to happen to you and you’re safe but you’re not unfortunately business is business.
Scott Ingram:
Yeah, how do you how do you deal with one of the challenges that I have with just sales in general is there are a lot of things that we’re not in control of. You’re not always going control of the territory, you’re not always in control of the product, you’re really in control of either of those things, and you’re not in control of the comp plan, and leadership changes and a huge number of things. How do you manage that?
Debe Rapson:
Yeah that is a very good question. I seem really flexible in role it with the punchers. And I don’t take any of that too seriously and that’s the nice thing about being experienced and you know walking a lot. And you know having you can get away from just having years under your belt and when you have some years under your belt, and you know you have the experience and so many different situations. I think it makes it easier to roll with the punches and not take any other really too seriously. None of it is going to make you break you. You know there’s always another job another boss another product.
You really had it.
And in the end on the other side of that you know a company always thinks that there’s another rep right. They may never being one as good as you were but there is [00:22:] in there, there is a diamond out there and so I try to keep it pretty light and roll with the punches and when things aren’t working for me anymore and listen to that signal, and move on you know. Obviously there’s that I mean try that work things out with you being happy. But listening to your intuition is a really important thing.
Scott Ingram:
That’s a, that’s a really good insight because you know I’ve been in places where hung around too long, right. Like I knew it was wrong.
I knew I needed to go to sleep but I’m committed I’m invested like and so I think that intuition piece is interesting and just the mindset of the time I got fired. I remember distinctly I was drive I mean it’s a horrible thing. You walked into HR and like go get your stuff and you know you do the walk of shame in the whole bit.
And I was in my car pulling out of the parking garage and I decided right then I said you know what. When I write the book of my life this chapter is going to be called Fired up. Right like there was a reason this happened there was an opportunity and I made I made a funny turn and but it will timidity lead to eloquent and really the place that I have been and loved kind of this space this marketing technology space has been amazing for me and again it’s just having that right mindset and you just got to get up and do it again and keep going and know that think things will change and there are probably some good lessons in there that you can learn from.
Debe Rapson:
Yeah you when you can kind of keep your eyes open and still answer those hard questions when you’re interviewing for a job. And I think people don’t do that. In general people don’t like to ask the hard questions, but that where you get the real deal. That’s for you to get the good information and then that’s going to help you make the right or wrong decision. And I think you got to do that all along the way [00:24:00] even when you at a company for a while, you know definitely when you interviewing that’s a really important piece of it.
When you at a company for a while you to you keep asking yourself those questions because life is short and you want to make sure that you’re have a great time along the way. You know it’s the most important thing you want be having fun at your job and your passion.
Debe Rapson:
For sure I shared with you earlier my, my motto has always been if you don’t love what you’re doing its work and work sucks. So what are those questions? So what are the questions that we should be asking ourselves in our current roles to make sure that you know to kind of keep our antenna up and also, well let me ask that one I will come back to the next one.
Scott Ingram:
Yeah I mean, I think the questions you know that I ask myself are and I say to get up in the morning and I’m looking forward to my day and I making the kind of money that I want to make. Am I going the direction that I want to go in? Is this helping me achieve what I really want out of my life?
There’s a saying and I actually have that on my Facebook page right now. I try to remember it. It’s something like enjoy. You know think about what you’re doing every day, and make sure that you’re enjoying it, because you trading a day of your life for it.
Scott Ingram:
That’s powerful.
Debe Rapson:
Yeah exactly, so I think about that and try to stay very present in the noble I’m a yogi so.
Staying present is a really important thing to me and I’m using it as my guiding light. If you will, you know as I go through you know times and I take times like the beginning of every year and the end of every year to really think about am I achieving what I want to achieve.
I have this practice every Sunday night before I go to sleep. I fire up the computer. I take [00:26:00] a look at what are the things that I need to accomplish this week, and I schedule those things into my week. This coming up and part of what I’m scheduling is my workout, you know gets some exercise five days a week.
Then part of it is what I think what I need to accomplish in my business, you know to drive things forward and so that’s how I kind of keep myself really focused on where I’m going and that in the beginning of the year. And a couple times throughout the year, take a look at my goals that I set at the beginning of every year. How much money do I want to make? How much education do I want to have?
You know one of the things that I really want to accomplish is with my family you know. And then I’m looked back through the year to keeping myself focussed.
Scott Ingram:
Yeah, let’s go back, I’ve got a couple of paths here but I want to finish this idea over the questions that you ask. So we talked about the questions you ask kind of in your current role to make sure that this is continuing to make sense and it’s the right path. What are the questions that you pass the hard questions that you ask going into a potential new opportunity.
Debe Rapson:
Yeah so, so I want to start by telling me about your organization right. And then I get nearer and nearer they start obviously in to discovery that I want to make them feel comfortable. Ask them the easy questions. And then move in to the harder questions. You know I let them understand even the easy questions are what are you know in my business and focusing on market itself.
You know tell me what your organization the activities and things that your guys doing what are some of your, you know the big picture goals. Really like to focus on how their organization is tied to their revenue goals and the goals of the companies so I really try [00:28:00] to tighten things back to the company initiatives and I typically do a quite a bit of research upfront before I do discovery call clients are really understand like Brud there and Dentafrin you know they’re in Europe or Anderson where they are move, my presentations are available there on the internet.
And then I start with a bit with some of the harder questions are you know I mean I typically ask this question three or four times it’s really around what are their challenges. What are the things that are really difficult for the organisation that are keeping them from achieving their goals?
And what’s the pain. Where’s the Frenching in the organization that’s really hurting them right now, what are the big problems that they’re trying to solve the typical ones. They’ll probably ask a question in a different way just like I do just now. A couple of times throughout the conversation because every time I ask it I get a little bit more information and that pain that fraction is typically the thing that I focus on to solve for them and then I build out my presentations on.
I also ask the tough questions around, where they think you know what it takes to get this this done, where they think the roadblocks are going to be. You know, what they’re, tell me more about the process and obviously probe deeper into that. You know want to find out if they done this before new technology solutions and the new whatever and what was that experience like.
And typically ask a lot of information about commitment resume not just titles but personalities and relation but navigating that because I do love the challenger that technology and I really [00:30:00] believe that you really have to understand the politics and the personalities involved and typically navigate well.
So I asked a lot of those questions and then I ask for transparency at the end of the discovery call. I always make sure that I ask for a transparency so I’m going to always be straight up with them and if something if we can’t do something I’m not going to snow them I’m going to tell them the truth. That this is going to be a long term relationship. I’m in it and you know, I didn’t do sales for a very long time and were going to do this again, if you don’t do this here, we’re going to do it in the future and always going to be straight up you know. And I’m asking them the same in return.
Scott Ingram:
What’s funny about that is you were halfway through before I realized you were answering the question about the questions you ask sort of in the discovery.
I’ve always thought that when you’re working towards a new position. It’s a sales process. So there’s probably not a lot of differences but what are the questions that you would ask of a potential new employer about that role particularly those hard questions to make sure that is this going to be a right fit because going back to my what I just said I always see that it’s a sales process right. More so than anything else right; you’ve got to build a pipeline I get to be talking to multiple different people, right. They all have their own processes I need to understand that process and who the stakeholders are and all of these things but what’s different about selling herself in that scenario is I only have one of me to sell and I can only do it once I don’t I don’t have another one that I can produce forty one. If anybody knows how to solve that I’m in.
So what are those questions that you’re asking to really qualify. Is this the right place for me? [00:32:00]
Debe Rapson:
Yeah so I do the exact thing during I do my sales
Scott Ingram:
That’s up
Debe Rapson:
Yeah a lot the, you know I start the big picture that is you know this is but what’s working you know and not working all those kinds of things understand what their expectations are what their management style is, and they trained you like that and I reach out there to the reps. I always ask to talk to the top rep.
But then I’ll ask to talk to who I’ll be working with the sales engineer, you know the person who’s going to be delivering leans to me, you know miss Danteen.
I typically like to talk to the head of marketing. When I interviewed the Demand base I talk to the majority of the management team miss Danteen the CMO, C.E.O. the C.T.O. and I ask to talked to one of the board members they were trainee, but I got that opportunity to do that. So I can really evaluate if this company that is for real does their technology work, right.
Am I going to be happy in their culture and am I going to be able to make the kind of money that I want to make and are they going to be okay with that.
Scott Ingram:
So that’s a great. There’s a hard question that really needs to be asked in a lot of situations.
Debe Rapson:
Exactly and, and I’ve had that conversation with my CEO even throughout the seven years that I’m been at the company, are you okay with the money I’m making, and he’s always attacked me, I’m delighted to pay you.
Scott Ingram:
And you have to find that attitude because it’s not pervasive. Right, there are a lot of people I mean to your point. You got fired twice. Because [00:34:00] people. It was like wow here’s a big number we can get rid of to save money at you know the right position and I think the right way to qualify that is they’re there returning answer needs to be some form of the more I’m paying you the more successful we’re being and understand how that works.
Debe Rapson:
Yeah exactly, so I really do, I do a lot of I think the secret is you know asking those questions, asking the really hard questions like that. And then just trying to then make sure that it is what you think it is. And doing a lot you know back door referencing etc. I did do that twenty years ago but I definitely did that ten years ago, I did that when I joined demand base. And I’ll do that but whenever my next position is going to be.
Scott Ingram:
And oh it’s so much easier now right, you go too linked in and you can see all the places they’ve worked before. Let me find somebody that works there. That was on their team whatever the scenario is, oh I love it. It’s great stuff.
So you started talking about a little bit of how you were structuring your, your week so kind of starts on Sunday. You’re laying down kind of the big rocks in your calendar. How do you structure the rest of it? What is your typical day look? Like are your days consistent is your week very good giving me that picture.
Debe Rapson:
Yeah my days are fairly consistent except that I travel
Scott Ingram:
Will come back to that
Debe Rapson:
There is a piece to that; it always starts with coffee and the newspaper for me. I really need both to keep these jar. And then typically the first thing that I attack is my email and I like to do that before I talk to anyone. Sometimes my day started at seven thirty or eight o’clock with a client. So I’m none of a morning person if you did not copy [00:36:00] that yet. So if you makes me to get up a little bit earlier, but I you know from there from the e-mails, and just kind of getting myself organized and set up and take a look what’s going on and, viewing through my calendar that’s it, I’m pretty back to where I get every day.
And that I love that I love that energy and that excitement and it amuses me that I’m be able to that from really probably the last four or five years. Where most of my days are truly back to back, its incredible pace to maintain;
Last year I did myself a really big favour and I took five weeks of vacation and I went to Africa it was real to all these still places and I do that as well this year, but I really try to balance out that, that rigorous pace that I have every day with taking solid vacation that I can reach the top because it’s a tough pace to maintain.
Scott Ingram:
How often do you do that?
Debe Rapson:
Take vacations.
Scott Ingram:
Yeah I can imagine you didn’t take five weeks all at once?
Debe Rapson:
Nobody did takes three weeks at once
Scott Ingram:
That’s awesome
Debe Rapson:
Yeah it was awesome life’s to close business while I was gone. I love that.
I’m use to tell my management team as long as I’m taking vacation typically I’m closing business while I’m gone. And in fact they close almost a million dollars last two weeks of the year when I was in Hawaii a couple of years ago. So it’s amazing what happens when you’re gone.
You know I probably take vacation about every three months. I try to kind of look at that you know at the end of quarter you know in the beginning of the next quarter and take some time off
Scott Ingram:
Yeah that makes sense. So you mention it’s different when you travel. Tell me about that, you know kind of how you’re managing the travel and any, any secrets you have there. [00:38:00]
Debe Rapson:
So you know I manage the travel piece of it, I do a couple things. The first is I no longer rent cars I take ….
Because it’s just easier, and it takes a lot of the stress of the travel out of it, I also for some odd reason exercise in the morning when I’m travel.
Scott Ingram:
Why is that odd?
Debe Rapson:
Well I typically exercise in the afternoon.
Scott Ingram:
Okay, okay
Debe Rapson:
So that’s what’s odd about it. But I think I do it because these get it typically the different times zones and I’m kind of leave that to your place of going and charged up. And so I’m travel, when I’m travel I typically exercise in the morning grab a good breakfast and go and I typically make my leavings in the back there about nine thirty, ten o’clock when I’m travel. You know again it’s kind of you know I try to do three or four appointments through the day so it’s a pretty work pace.
Scott Ingram:
It’s fast.
Debe Rapson:
Yeah yeah yeah take clients out to dinner etc. is good
Scott Ingram:
Always long days on the road; I’m experiencing one now. Up since you know five o’clock and it’ll go till I’m sure midnight or something with dinners and everything else so good stuff.
You eluded to this a couple of times already so it sounds like you are you really subscribe to the challenger sales Philosophy Talk, talk about that a little bit. I mean is it lock-stock and barrel kind of that that’s it. Are there pieces of you know give me a feel for that.
Debe Rapson:
Yes so when I started my career in radio, I was lucky enough to have a management team that got Anthony Robbins and I do fire one because I’m not a fool but I’m really love his energy and what he had to say So end up doing a few trainings through them and I’m really [00:40:00] enjoy that.
And kind of finally met straight with them and, and focus and doing active listening those kinds of things. If you just kind of the person that I guess of the early training from and then you have to bear in mind
Scott Ingram:
I don’t think I have
Debe Rapson:
Yeah he’s a trainer in the Bay Area that works with companies globally a lot of very large companies, and what I took from his trainings and I also been through training through my company through him and I really learned about the art of curiosity from him, and really genuine curiosity and that was one of the things that really stuck with me through just kind of how I move through my profession and working with clients. Putting myself in the mind frame and honestly having that.
And later on there are a lots of other methodologies but recently the challenger was the one that sticks with me. And it’s not so much of a subscriber to the philosophy is that I believe that you have to understand what those different you know touch points are and you count asking questions it’s kind of a combination of really what I’ve learnt about the years so just resonates with it, and when I recon the different types of salespeople is very clear very quickly. Good bad or ugly and challenger is a personality right those are things that you just have those are you’re the natural way that you are you can learn to be a relationship person, you just are a relationship person and just a challenger
Scott Ingram:
Yeah interesting so what motivates you?
Debe Rapson:
Freedom motivates me, freedom to do whatever I want to do with my [00:42:00] time have you get that. Money, money wise you pretty what to do and to do with your time and that motivates me. I want to be able to spend my days on how I want to spend my days. If I want to go to a yoga class at lunch or two in the afternoon I don’t do it. And I love that freedom but the only way you can get that kind of freedom while you working anyway is making a lot of money and being able to you know manage things the way you want to. So really that motivates me.
Scott Ingram:
Yeah excellent, is there something the average sales rep believes that you think is crazy?
Debe Rapson:
The thing during discovery;
Scott Ingram:
Yeah
Debe Rapson:
Yeah the average sales rep pitches during discovery is those who cannot help themselves. It’s hard it’s a thing that you have to control yourself you so excited from what they’re saying you want to tell them how to fix it or solve their problem.
The best thing a rep can do is to not pitch during discovery until really make it explore territory in discovery. You can use all that great information when you ready to go with when they pitch, and it’s very tempting but it’s a thing that I think is crazy. And when you get away with this too early, unfortunately what happens is they think that they have what they need. And they’re making a just mend base on that.
Scott Ingram:
It’s interesting I think that’s one of those false assumption things because when you say selling right the word selling or the act of the verb selling, I think people often go to pitching. I actually find it to be a struggle sometimes with solution consultants like we’re doing discovery. I frequently sort of taming people back of like look all we’re doing here, is working to understand this piece sometimes it’s a deeper dive technical conversation. We need [00:44:00] to understand this piece. So I can finish the scope so I can finish the rest of the conversation. I don’t need you because they feel like but I’m on a sales call. I need not know I got it.
You don’t need to do that. Your job is to be the expert and ask even better questions that I’m asking. So that we can get to that end game that’s that is fantastic. I love that.
So what have been the most important decisions you’ve made or lessons you’ve had to learn to get where you are today?
Debe Rapson:
It is a very good question, one of that is when an offer someone gets you seems to be good true, you know seems too good to be true and probably is. And sometimes people like offering you a big salary or a big signing bonus, because they see in you something that’s great that they want, but without that you wouldn’t necessarily go to that company.
And I’ve been through that, somebody offers me a brilliant salary and I believe a signing purpose and it was a huge mistake. I think you got to follow your passion, the things you love to do with your time, and I think that your passion will bring you money and ultimately freedom.
I think people don’t enough follow their passion, they’re just looking for a job. And asking those hard questions pre-qualifying when you interviewing, really helps qualify is this something that I going to practise. Is this a solution that I feel really good about this could they help people with that gets me excited every day.
How this gets is gives me the ability to be and infantilize her. So following your passion is a really important piece and paying attention to verify [00:46:00] like if the offer looks too good to be true it probably is, followed your intuition is a really important piece.
I think there’s always a police inside you that is directing you, pay attention to the voice be present with it because it’s probably telling you the truth. It’s probably protecting your future.
Scott Ingram:
I found the same thing with what my wife says, it’s taken you way too long to figure out whether I want a future and I, she’s freaking always right. It kills me.
Debe Rapson:
You know I started my career in marketing and advertising and funny enough I got my degree in broadcast journalism and marketing that in the day that those two things were together and I, I loved to what I was doing that I wanted to make more money than and that were rapidly in advertising. And so I went into software and telecommunications and I kind of moved away from my passion which is really marketing and advertising and I kind of stop having fun and it wasn’t that I didn’t continue to sell but I kind of just stop having that sparkle in my eye that I have today.
Scott Ingram:
She does. It’s a video it’s an audio medium but there’s a sparkle
Debe Rapson:
And when I’m return to it, I got only to returned and having a great time. I double my income and that was really talent to me, so by eleven years old that’s eleven years ago. I returned to marketing but it’s somebody a recruiter find alibi for me, and that was a huge fit in my career and in my financial situation and ultimately I get my freedom. [00:48:00] I am I had a good time.
So I would just say you know follow that passion and ask those hard questions. You know pay attention to your intuition. And also the other pieces of that is take care of your team and take care of your team mean your internal team and also your clients that’s your external team take care of your people. If you take care of your people you’ll been taking care off.
Scott Ingram:
Great advice, great advice; you must have been reading ahead. The micky answering the advice you’d give to somebody starting in a sales career we have that one covered.
Debe Rapson:
The only thing that I would add to that and starting your sales career is you can’t skep the hard mark. With technology and the milieus we you know if I had that the qualification feels infinite people want it and they believe that they can have it but you can’t you can’t skep the hard work you got to go through the tough lessons, you have to feel you have to fail to succeed, and you can’t be scared of failing. In fact I failed over and over and it’s only brought me more success but you have to failed to succeed there’s no question about that.
I always say sales is kind of a bits of part in science so there is process and a methodology and even to this day thirty years into my career I continue to look at the list of discovery questions while I going through discovery because I want to make sure that I cover off on those things and so I continue to look at that list while I go through it. So there’s process you know that I followed that I know is my magic formula to get a good deal done. Wherever I’m at, but there’s also the art the art of listening [00:50:00] and the art of the fragile expression, responding been genuine all of those intangible things of things that they think is so important, and that’s really a mix of both those things. Sales is kind of is kind of a little bit of luck and knowing what to do with that.
Scott Ingram:
Yeah, yeah it’s creating your own luck and all of those things to, when do you get the stop feeling.
Debe Rapson:
Just deal with luck…
Scott Ingram:
That’s right that’s right. It keeps going. It keeps going. Yeah, well I think it’s, it’s, just continuing to learn to be aware of those failures and you can’t ever take it personally. You just have to. You just got to keep going.
Debe Rapson:
It’s part of our journey.
Scott Ingram:
So I guess this is the opposite end of failure I’m curious to know I’m still building my litany of, of questions, but what would you want to know about top sellers and other organizations, because we talked about this before either it’s when you’re number one for seven years you don’t have any peers at Demand base.
So where, where do you go find how do you kind of surround yourself with other people that are at your level and you know what, what questions what other questions should I be asking as I talk to your peers?
Debe Rapson:
That’s a tough one but I think that it’s I think that naturally true networking you gone to need those people along the way and I lucky enough to have one of those folks at Demand base that I actually brought to the company from another company.
Scott Ingram:
Create your own competition.
Debe Rapson:
Exactly love that, anyway I like competition. I think that you need people along the way and you I think ask them the questions that you know that you’re searching for answers too [00:52:00] and doing those kind of networking and helping people, helping people find jobs and helping people find customers partnering with other sales reps, I’m really into working with reps from other companies who are in my territory who I can help get this is split because I know putting up that good energy and we get it right back.
One of the questions that I’m constantly asking top Sales people is what is sunset in your career looks like?
I’m in the place where I’m thinking about it, and we all at some point. Think about so you know what are the next ten fifteen years look like how I could play this thing out. I’ve been successful doing this piece.
What does it look like towards the end of a career and what’s interesting is that there are not a ton of top sales reps that where woman.
Especially in technology and so finding out for me what those women are doing is really fascinating and don’t have a whole lot of women that I can look to a generation ahead of me ten years ahead of me, that I could look at and see how did you play that out?
So to some degree and barnstorming a little bit and setting the pace as my grandmother did in her day, and I try to figure that out. So that’s probably the big question that I ask top sales reps now is what is the sunset in your career look like?
Scott Ingram:
Yeah where, is your head on that right now how are you thinking about it.
Debe Rapson:
I’m really max because sales management is not so appealing to be
Scott Ingram:
Happy either, no thanks;
Debe Rapson:
Yeah things like that. Like you know we talking about earlier it seems like a lot more headache and household for less money. I’m sure about that. But I think and I’m interested in [00:54:00] helping other sales reps so they being in visualising being over lay helping rep sharing the knowledge and things I’ve learned and about the industry and about sales and helping them get where they’re going of course I have to being overlay and get some money for that.
So for me I think that my sunset looks like continuing to build on my retirement fund, as well as getting back and cheering. I’m not sure if that is what is looks like, but it’s the idea that is interested.
Scott Ingram:
Yeah they will keep talking, but thanks for thanks for doing the podcast that’s the that’s the definitely a big way to give back and I really appreciate you doing that and we’ll talk a little bit more about some of those other top female sellers I do want to involve some of them because I think a couple of things. I mean obviously you’re definitely a minority in the profession I’d love to just kind of the question after I finish get off my soapbox here is, is just kind of how have you dealt with that.
How is that different, right; do you do you have to take a different mind-set to this because given what I’m hearing right this much more I think as sales evolves. Those that are doing best are more empathetic I mean it’s basically the female trades that are becoming more and more powerful in sales processes. But I’m not seeing a big influx of women coming into the profession.
So two questions then, how is that been for you right? Are there unique challenges I’m sure there’s unique challenges that you have to deal with how do you deal with that and what advice would you have to a young woman who is maybe finishing college this is this is perhaps an opportunity for a sales career. Again I think almost everybody sort of shows this off because they don’t understand what sales really is and it’s much cooler than you think we’re not selling used cars and wearing crappy suits and just being, being horrible people [00:56:00] right this, this is a really, really cool gratifying thing and I’d love to bring more people into it with that much more positive mindset so I’ll stop talking and let you go.
Debe Rapson:
I think that it I think that some of the challenges that I face being a women in technology are probably more internal than external. It’s if you are a certain knowledgeable confident, people are frightened. You I always look for what now, when I go to a company. Are the company that’s going to be able to work with somebody like me are they a company that’s going to be comfortable with a strong confident woman. And that has somebody who’s going to build over and just a strong confident woman. And believe it or not there’s a lots of companies are completely old school and uninterested in that and are comfortable and I been with somebody in these companies. So I look for that.
Scott Ingram:
How do you look for that?
Debe Rapson:
I train to ask people questions I look for example, I look at who are, what the make-up of their Sales team, right is that an old male. You know are there some women on the team who are the people who are successful on the sales team. I also look at the management team. Is that meal dominated, do other woman on the team and, I look at how they make decisions in the way that I’m equal to uncover that is like asking people the hard questions while I interviewing.
You now I ask for around that by you know the kinds of decisions that they make around you know around higher level and what are their values you know not just what the companies steadied values are, but I ask the management team about their values.
So you can if you ask [00:58:00] those questions and you look at the make of the team, you really get an understanding for, their openness to, to working with somebody like you whether you’re a strong woman or a strong man whatever that is.
You know for every individual that is listening to this you know, I already able to, are you going to fit in in the organisation culturally and I think an employee who you are. It’s like looking for a partner right.
Scott Ingram:
Total
Debe Rapson:
And that they going to embrace who you are and then you know it’s far as career advice goes for a man or woman coming in and I would say you know get adventure that something that I wish I had that I didn’t have. But I can say find them and somebody that can help guide to you along the way whether that person is ideally in sales or nothing in kind of adventure that kind of help you the way, because it’s great to learn from other people’s mistakes.
Scott Ingram:
Yeah, yeah and I think the better thing is key for any anybody right and it’s such I don’t know I think maybe people think about the mentor piece and they put too much official-ness around it I don’t have a good word for this right. I think mentoring is much more very, very casual very informal you may or may not call them a mentor they would consider you a mentee but it’s just who you’re surrounding yourself with who you spend time with and everybody’s willing to, to help especially if you demonstrate that you’ll listen and take action on the things that they suggest and reporting back on those things that goes miles.
You know I mean having, having done a little bit of that work myself usually on the on the mentee end but having done a little bit of mentoring myself. There’s just a huge difference in the willingness that I have in spending time with people if. I don’t [01:00:00] know if they’re just going through the motions and maybe they’re asking some good questions, but they don’t act on anything versus those that are really after it.
And you can see that and it’s so fun to spend that time and the flipside is right on the mentoring side I think you often get more out of it as a mentor than you’ve been your mentee may just because you’re seeing, seeing things through a fresh set of eyes and being able to think through things over it differently.
Debe Rapson:
There is a great article in the New York Times a couple weeks ago and that, how this woman in her fifty’s was mentored by a young woman she’s a New York Times journalist and she was kind of interested in learning about Twitter that’s really uncomfortable with it and how to tweet out as a journalist and she connected herself with somebody younger who you know grew up tweeting long tweeting use it all the time as a journalist and the older woman was mentored by the younger woman and using Twitter. So this is a perfect example of how it can go both ways great and only to learn more. Sometimes mentoring but that’s not mean she can be the mentee and the person who is more experience.
Every time in my entire career than I’ve gone out, got into a company. I’ve gone out with the top rep. My first asked that I write a new company is to the top rep. asking them if they will let me spend some time with them. So I can learn from them. How is this done? You’re most successful person in the company and they will let you do it.
Scott Ingram:
Yeah, yeah so I hear. That is great great great great stuff such good conversations. So where we will try and wrap and this is always a challenging question we may have to work through it together give an instruction create a challenge. What, what is something that the person listening to this. You would recommend [01:02:00] they take away that if it’s an action what can they focus on for a short period of time next week to really work on to elevate their own game and get to that next level actually have an idea but I’ll let you start
Debe Rapson:
I would say there are a couple things that there are a couple things that people can do kind of challenges themselves. One of those things is on a Sunday or Monday morning takes a look at their week and big picture what they want to accomplish. And then schedule the steps into their week.
And I would say do, that if possible for four weeks straight? It’s a habit typically takes 20 to 30 days.
Scott Ingram:
Yeah, yeah
Debe Rapson:
That for me is a game changer and keeps me very focused interrupted. And the second thing that I would say is create a list of questions. Things that you are curious about and that they help you present the most well rounded solution on your customer weighments’ and create that list with questions and write it down and look at it for a week for every one of your discovery calls.
And see if that helps you be more through the way you approached creating a solution and the third thing I would say is practice not pitching during discovery.
Scott Ingram:
That’s what I was going to suggest shut up and listen.
Debe Rapson:
Yeah exactly
Scott Ingram:
Awesome Deb this is been fantastic. Thank you again for having me over and having such a great conversation. I hope those of you who [01:04:00] are listening took as much away from this as I did I hope that you’ll also go to top one dot F.M. get on the mailing list to get into the influence of community we would love to have you one of the things I’m going to start thinking about from this conversation is are there some ways that we create can create in that sales success community some mentor mentee type opportunities so something for me to consider if you have ideas e-mail me please. I don’t have all the answers. Scott a tough one. Dot F.M. would love to hear from you. Thanks so much Deb.
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