Full Transcript below. Here you can find the condensed show notes.
Intro: You’re listening to the sales success stories podcast where we deconstruct world class sales performers to provide insights and strategies to help you improve. To learn more visit us at topone.fm. Here’s your host Scott Ingram.
Scott Ingram: Today I’m super excited to be talking with Jacquelyn Nicholson who is the number 1 seller at Percolate in her enterprise sales role. Welcome to the show Jacquelyn.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Thank you so much Scott it’s be great to be talking to you today.
Scott Ingram: So like we do with this show these conversations can go very long which makes them a lot of fun but we try and frontload some of the values. So what I’ve asked Jacquelyn to do like I ask all of my guests to do is try and distill what are the 3 things that have differentiated you and allowed you to get to and stay at the top in this type of a role. So I’ve know you’ve sent me some great notes on these and I look forward to talking with them and I’ll let you talk through them however you like.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Oh perfect. Well I thought about the question quite a bit after you asked me because I think there’s a number of different things that sales professionals can look to as the reasons for their success but for me I really wanted to be very thoughtful about it and it really for me comes down to a few key areas that I hope are unique and helpful to your listeners but the first thing is really about building rapport. A lot of people will talk a bit about building relationships and how important building relationships is to their success but a lot of times when you’re meeting with somebody new who’s a potential customer you don’t know them so it’s very hard to pretend that you have a relationship with them immediately and it can come off pretty false at first. So for me it’s really about building that rapport at first and I think that each one of us if we want to be successful can find something in common upon which we can build rapport with a potential new customer and that’s really where it’s start to cement things between you and this potential customer, in my opinion. So I think you have to start by building rapport and to me that’s really central first of all. So that’s the first thing. I think if I had to think long and hard enough about the second one is tough to quantify it but I really sort of tag it under the concept of emotion and if you’ve ever seen the TedTalk by Simon [inaudible] 02:24 where he talks about, I think it’s entitled “How great leaders inspire action”, he talks about leading with the why and he gives some really examples in there and it’s just talking about having a prospective customer have an emotional connection to you, to your company, to your product or to your service and that they want to buy it and that they will find a reason to justify the purchase. So people buy for emotional reasons and a lot of people don’t understand that but they have a motivation and its almost always tied to a specific emotion around their personal or professional success and so when they connect with you, with your brand, with your service, they just have to have it. So there’s that sort of feeling of I don’t know why I need this but I need this and they’ll look for those reasons to be able to justify it.
So I think that emotion is a really important piece as well and then the last thing for me comes from the genesis of my career where I wasn’t always selling. Before this I used to be the person sitting across from you Mr Seller to buy something and for me it came to down to something I call ‘so what’. So I would sit there and I would listen to these vendors coming in to talk to me endlessly and it was really to the point where I was sitting there as they blathered on and on and on about how fantastic their product or their service was and I’m just thinking, “So what? Do you even know what I do? Do you even know what’s important to me?” and so for me I find that that’s really a deathly mistake that sales professionals can make is going on and on and so I try to always thing about what is the “So what” or “the what’s in it for me?” factor for the prospective customer as well.
Scott Ingram: Yeah great items and I have a couple follow up questions but I before I do that I wanted give a shout out to our inaugural sponsor Nudge. Nudge is a modern sales platform that leverages relationships strength to help you find and keep your best customers. I’ve been using Nudge myself since a very early Beta version and they continue to add more and more to their solutions. So if you value relationships the way Jacquelyn and I do, then you’re going to want to check out Nudge and you can sign up for free at neednudge.com.
So Jacquelyn, coming back to your list. So you talked about talked about rapport, you talked about emotion and you talked about the “So what?” How do you go about building rapport in a way that’s not mentioning the fish on the wall?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yeah right. It’s like, “Oh I see that you like fish, I like fish too.” I do remember doing that once upon a time by accident and it really came off cheesy but to me it’s a little bit of research and homework without being too stalky or a little bit weird. Taking the time to review someone’s LinkedIn profile, taking the time to review press about the prospective customers employer, taking time to get to know some of the important events in their company and what’s going on. That’s easy stuff, that’s 101 but taking that and actually finding some common ground so a lot of times it just might be some warm conversation about recent travel or the weather can be, you know, maybe it sounds cheesy but it can be a really nice start to a conversation and I’ve just found that just being yourself and being friendly because when you’re trying too hard or its false and you don’t really care about the person, it’s much worse than if you didn’t do it all I think. So I think it’s important to be genuine and authentic and so that’s one of my top priorities is being authentic. So if I really do care about finding a solution for this person that would be helpful to them I’m going to have done that homework and that’s going to give me the basis for some groundwork for rapport.
And then listening to what they have to say and something that might spark something that’s very interesting to you. So when it sparks that genuine interest the rapport seems very genuine and it is very genuine. So you got to avoid the appearance of being false when you’re trying to build the rapport because that’s, most people will see right through that I think.
Scott Ingram: And these may lead each other because my question was how are you finding those emotional reasons and the ‘so what’ with your prospects?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: I think that comes down to asking really great questions and then having the control, the self-control to just be quiet and listen to the answers. So a lot of times we’re very quick to ask a question and instead of listening to the response we’re actually preparing to speak again. Right?
Scott Ingram: Yes.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: And so for me that’s something that, I think it just takes some self-control, it takes some practice and you know having a list of questions that you may want to ask ahead of time can be very powerful as well.
Scott Ingram: Are there specific questions do you have kind of go to’s that you have found that really help open up that dialogue and those items that you can be able to tie back to later?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well I think it really depends on the situation but there are a few good ones. So you ask, I used to work for this gentlemen who asked the best questions, that I called skin crawling questions. So they’re the questions that make the prospective customer say, “Oh gosh I didn’t think of that”. So a lot of times it could be, “So what happens if you don’t solve this problem?” So once you’ve uncovered the problem so what are the consequences, so what happens if we don’t address this? Your open ended questions are the most important of course, I should’ve started with that. Don’t ask something that’s yes or no if you can help yourself. A lot of times you’ll need to know those things but asking an open ended question can be really valuable in terms of your success, in terms of what people will reveal and then going a level deeper. So a lot of times if they raise an objection you can sort of soften that and come back with a question that’s a little bit challenging or that might uncover more information and just don’t be happy with the first question and the first answer I think, is the way I do it.
Scott Ingram: Yeah so really just going deeper in the way that you’re questioning.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Exactly.
Scott Ingram: Yeah. So let’s go back, not quite all the way to the beginning, we might get there, but talk about your current role and how you got to number one.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yes so I’m in a senior enterprise account executive at Percolate and I’ve been here just over 2 years. So I was one of the very first individuals hired into Percolate with experience selling to the kinds of customers we were aspiring to sell to. In the companies earlier days it was of course different and once we had a stronger message, our message around the system of record for marketing was one that needed to be taken to very senior professionals and to larger enterprises because even though the solution has a wide variety of clients, I mean we work with over 800 brands in 70 countries around the world so there are an awful lot of prospective customers out there that can leverage our solution and what Percolate was seeking to do with me was to really go after the enterprise. So I was the first person brought into that, I was also one of the inaugural members of our San Francisco office so this whole thing involved me moving my family from the East Coast to the West Coast as well.
Scott Ingram: Awesome and where did the enterprise kind of experience come from for you, how did that develop?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well I think it really, gosh it’s probably been around for almost as long as I’ve been in the sales role. So before I came into a role as a sales professional I was working predominantly in roles that leveraged my experience in the pharmaceutical and bio-tech industry and also a bit in the medical device space because that’s where I started my career so it came out that. So a lot of the companies that are doing those kind of things, they are manufacturing those kinds of products are very large and so I had a lot of expertise with those customers and that’s a lot experience in what it took to close business. Very long sales cycles, very complicated procurement or sources processes and things like that. So that really helped me as I built my career over the years.
Scott Ingram: So Jacquelyn can you quantify your results for us. How are you doing?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: So this year so far as of today with still a couple of things pending to come in before the year end, which is a nail biter at this point in the year, I’m at a 150% of my plan right now, expect to end around 135. So I’m really thankful for that and I always tell sales professionals to be thankful for your best years because they don’t always happen. It’s a cyclical sort of thing. You can always do well and do your best with the situations you’ve been given but you just don’t control everything. So really thankful for this year, it’s been a very nice one.
Scott Ingram: Yeah good stuff and we try and keep these episodes kind of evergreen but I think it’s fair to kind of give context that we’re having this conversation on December 20th so a just a few days left in the end of the year and we’re all kind of hustling to finish out strong. So now let’s go all the way back because I think you’re origin story is really interesting. Talk about how you got into sales originally.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yes so it’s funny, so at the time early in my career I was working for Johnson & Johnson which was really to me one of the best companies in the world, I think it’s just very high standards and very proud to have been able to work there. I am very honoured by that. I was not in sales but I was responsible for this interesting global project and the project is actually, today we think back and it’s pretty hilarious, so I was very young in my career and the whole project was really around how Johnson & Johnson was going to leverage the internet for their business which is really sort of interesting when you think about it now. Now it’s just a utility to all of us that we’re very frustrated when it’s not available or not working fast enough.
And so my internal job was really going around to all the different operating companies of the Johnson & Johnson family to sell this idea internally to all these very senior executives in finance and IT about how J&J could really benefit from using the internet. There were some pretty hilarious reactions to that. So if you’re on the cutting edge of selling really interesting technology picture yourself in 1995 trying to tell a CFO that it would be really great if everybody would have a browser in their computer and access to this thing called the internet that a lot of them weren’t quite sure of what the business applicability was. So that’s pretty funny to think of it that way but as part of that I met with a lot of vendors and a lot of solutions vendors. So I can’t even tell you how many phone calls I used to get a day because my phone number at J&J was actually, my name and my number, were at the switch board because they would get all these incoming calls from vendors looking to talk to whoever was responsible at J&J for these technologies and they all got routed to me and I was so young, I mean it was just fascinating to me. I can’t believe I was getting all of these calls, so I’d meet with these vendors when it seemed interesting enough and they had something that was relevant to sell me and to the team that was working on this project because I was just the project lead.
Most of my experiences with these vendors was just really awful. So there were 2 things that were happening at the same time, number 1: I discovered that I really had a gift for going around and selling things even though I was just really selling the idea of a project to very senior executives within the family of companies that I worked for but I was also having to meet with different people who had something to sell that would beneficial and a lot of times I would sit there, like I mentioned to you, I would sit in these presentations just thinking, “Oh my God do you even know what Johnson & Johnson does? Do you know what we make? Do you care why we want to do this?” and that’s when I sort of a light came on and I said, I would really good at selling but by gosh I am not going to sell this way.
Scott Ingram: So you learned first-hand everything not to do.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: In a way. I mean I did meet some wonderful people along the way and when you asked me this question I thought back about those business solutions I chose to buy and they were the people that came in and really cared what the implications were for us. They cared about what was important. They made it easy to buy from them and they made it simple for me and the team to understand and they provided just everything as part of the solution that was important to us and they really understood the deadlines, they understood what was frustrating for us, they understood the budget limitations we had, they understood why we were doing this project in the first place and how new it was to a fantastic company. That’s not necessarily always the first to embrace technology so that’s who we chose to do business with. Those were the people that really made it simple and that really affected me as I became a seller.
Scott Ingram: What an awesome way to just learn and understand kind of from that prospective and to your point earlier as we talked about kind of getting to and understanding this enterprise space, knowing what it takes to get things done inside a huge organisation and all of the hoops you have to jump through and you need to structure your deal when, just to get through all of that right?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Oh absolutely and never put your eggs in one basket. I’ve had that happen to me.
Scott Ingram: Yeah haven’t we all.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: It’s like my person’s gone. What? Oh no.
Scott Ingram: Yeah start over. So Jacquelyn how did you make the transition? So how did you go from that role into sales initially?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well it was a few steps. The first thing I think that was the best part of the transition was I had fantastic mentors and if I would just say if you’re listening to this and you don’t have a mentor you need to find one or an executive coach, a coach, a mentor, can make all of the business in your professional career and personally too. I had a fantastic mentor at the time who would listen to me and talk to me about my goals and I’ll never forget what he said to me, he said, “Do you know you really should be in sales, you should go into sales because if I were an eskimo I would buy an igloo from you and a refrigerator to keep it in.” So if you unpack that statement its pretty funny first of all, thank you Jim Walsh but Jim said that to me and it’s like okay so an eskimo doesn’t need an igloo, nor a refrigerator but he would buy one and I just thought that’s a pretty cool motivation. So that inspired me and I said, well how do I do it? He goes, you’re going to be able to just walk into some place and say, “Hey I’d like to sell something for you.”
He goes, because you don’t have any sales experience and at the time I’ll never forget, Johnson & Johnson, I did look into going into sales and it wasn’t going to happen because at the time their culture was such that if you didn’t start in sales you weren’t going to go into sales and I was really privileged many years later, around the time I was pregnant with my second child to have met a former head of HR from a big J&J operating company, a lady that I am very proud to have as another mentor of mine and I remember we would at a mutual friends birthday party and she said, “My gosh how we did ever lose you at J&J?” and I said, “I wanted to go into sales and you wouldn’t let me.” and she goes, “OH gosh I remember that error. That was terrible terrible we should’ve kept you”, and so I knew I couldn’t do it there so my mentor and I sort of set out to just look into roles that would be nice from moving into really working within a pharmaceutical company, a big corporation, to actually getting out and selling. And so the first step was really getting in front of customers and the logical step there was consultancy. So I spent some time doing some consulting work for consultancy and that really gave me the customer facing experience to take on a few interim roles after that where I leveraged my technical expertise, almost like a presales engineer but really managing accounts on the technical side and then really where I got to take my first quota carrying role a:t Sun Micro systems.
Scott Ingram: Interesting. So this mentorship theme has showed up a lot in these conversations what advice would you have for finding mentors, cultivating those relationships, like how did you find Mr Walsh for example?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well I think it’s just finding someone that you look up to is a critical part of it because if you admire them chances are that other people admire them and that’s going to lead you to something, I think that could possibly lead to your success. So I think its number 1, it should always be somebody successful, it should be somebody that captures that which you’re seeking. So for instance what my mentors have always given to me is they’ve been successful in their field typically, they don’t have to be a person who’s older than you are, it could be somebody that’s a peer, it could be somebody younger depending on what you’re seeking. A lot of times though mentors do tend to be people who are further along in their careers and I think the benefit of that is sometimes you can short circuit mistakes that you don’t have to make if you can learn from their mistakes, which is really cool but I think some of it goes back to what we started our conversation with is building rapport. So you have to have something in common. You have to have something that is a spark between you and a potential mentor and then a lot of companies, if your companies have formal mentoring programs that could be a good way to just get an experience for what it’s like. If a company doesn’t do a mentoring program or if they don’t have a formal one, you can always have informal mentors. Currently today at Percolate I am an informal mentor for a load of people in our midmarket group which has just been a real honour for me.
Scott Ingram: Awesome and so speaking of kind of short circuiting the mistakes, I mean are there things that if you could go back and do it over again today that you would’ve done differently in the path that you took?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: I wouldn’t change anything and that’s because I don’t believe in regrets and I also believe that I would want to change anything in the path that lead to the person I am today and I really like who I am. I love my life, I love my career and I love the person I am and so I can’t regret anything and a chain of events that lead to that and that’s been something that has really stuck with me for a long time. I read it in a unlikely place one day on an airplane in a left over newspaper that was in the seat, some years ago, and it was actually Garrison Keillor and he was talking about a picture of his granddaughter on this old flip phone that he had and was thinking about his life and how crazy it’s been and all of the stupid things he had done, like what a failure, what a crazy lunatic etc. Like he was sort of very hard on himself in this article and then he said, but then I thought how can I regret anything in a long chain of events that led to her existence and there’s not a thing. So I really do believe that we are who we are because of all the things that we’ve done, the choices we’ve made both good and bad and if you like who you are there’s no reason to want to change anything because it lead you to where you are.
It led me to where I am.
Scott Ingram: Love that . Love that. So along that journey what have you been most proud of?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Oh I think it has to be my marriage and my kids. So those are the 2 things I am most proud of because I think I love what I do and I think if you’re a successful sales professional you love what you do, this is the only thing I can imagine doing and but I do it for them. I do it so that I can put food on the table, so that we can take a fun vacation to the beach, so I’m also very passionate about giving to charity, so that success financially enables me to be generous which I love to do because I think that’s a responsibility that we have if we are fortunate we need to take care of others and I really believe passionately about that. And so I learned this from my executive coach Jim Riviello and Riv said to me, when we first started working together almost 3 years ago he asked me how I define success and I thought, “Well gosh I want to make a lot of money, I want a title, I want this, I want that, I want a nice car, I want to be able to drink nice wine.” and he sort of laughed at me, he goes, “Yeah yeah yeah okay let’s break that down a little bit.”
So he got me thinking very differently and this is what I tell everybody today is, success for me is being the person that I want to be and I can be that person whether it’s the face of adversity, if I’ve been cut off on the freeway, if I’ve just lost a big deal, I can still be successful because my success is tied to the person I am. And when I show up as the person that I aspire to be that’s when I’m successful and for me that’s defined as the person that my husband would marry all over again, the person that my boss Matt would hire again and the person that my kids are really proud to introduce to their friends. So when I do that, that’s when I’m successful and so that’s why I’m most proud of those things and what really drives me,
Scott Ingram: Such good stuff. So you mentioned charity, what’s charity de jour these days?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Oh gosh there’s so many. I really love what Heifer international does where you can, if you’ve never heard of it, I actually told somebody about this yesterday who had never heard of it, where you can basically buy a family in need a farm animal or chickens or rabbits or a goat. So that’s a pretty call thing. I also like to do local things, so one of my favourite things here in Sonoma County California where I live, Friedman’s home improvement does this really cool secret Santa through the volunteer centre of Sonoma County where at a lot of different local venues you can pick up these little Christmas ornaments with a wish list from a child or a person in need or an adult who’s in a home at risk, where you can get them a gift and so I love to do local things because I think that we’re in our local area for a reason. So it’s nice to help people who are in need from afar but it’s also, you have a greater impact when it’s right here in your home turf, if you will and then also something my son came up with, which is really cool, is we have a lot of homeless people in California especially where we live. it’s warm weather, it’s easier to survive outside and well it’s a sad situation and you feel like you’re driving up to an intersection and you can’t really help someone for whatever reason.
We keep these little Ziploc bags, or actually they’re big Ziploc bags in the car with like a protein bar and some candy and a toothbrush and some candy and toiletries and a pair of socks and a bottle of water or a protein smoothie or something like that and just hand them to somebody who looks like they really are in need and so that’s not really an official charity but it’s something that my son Clayton thought of that we try to do. So those are probably the ones that really resonate with me and touch my heart, I feel like, I always try to do more.
Scott Ingram: Yeah it’s great stuff and I like that both the bags that you create for the homeless and Heifer, I mean they’re both tangible. Right like that’s real, you can sort of see the impact. I can imagine a cow or a chicken and they’re self-sustaining and all of those things, really fun stuff. So just like we talked about kind of the mentor thing, I’m curious about the relationship with your coach and how that came about and how you use that.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yeah so I’ve known Riv for, it’ll be almost 17 years coming up. He and I met when we worked together Sun Microsystems and he paid me this fantastic compliment, I remember very early on in my days there and it stuck with me and I was privileged to work with him for the 3 and a half years that I was at the company in a couple of different roles. He was there when I took my first quota carrying role which was really an overlay role as a sales professional in support of his team and he was really instrumental in my success. We always stayed in touch after working together and he went out on his own and started a business, Leadership X university, and so what he has done is he’s built this fantastic business just coaching, mentoring, providing leadership, techniques, workshops and programs for senior executives all over the country and for companies. And I remember when I was embarking on a new role just a couple of years ago prior to Percolate, I really wanted to do things differently. I felt like I have achieved a great level of success but there were things that I wanted to change, there were some things I wanted to do differently and he and I went for coffee one day, I think it was around Christmas time 3 years ago and starting about what that would look like to engage him every month, every week on a personal level to get some one on one executive coaching. So I actually formally started working with him in January of 2014 which was many years after we had first met but I continue to work with to this day.
And it’s really great, it’s almost like, somebody joked with me and said, he’s like your therapist, I said, “Well not really.” some days it can be but what’s great about it I feel like I have made such strides in the last few years working with Riv that I could’ve never done it myself, I don’t think I’d be where I’m today if I hadn’t done it and it’s just changed everything for me to be honest. It has opened up my eyes to what success really means, its opened up my eyes to ways to handle more and more challenging situations because we call it ‘trips around the mountain’ so the higher up the mountain you go the more times you go around and they’re shorter and they’re more challenging and steeper often and so for me it’s, I don’t think I could’ve done it without him.
Scott Ingram: Yeah interesting stuff. How do you think about the difference between the mentors you surround yourself with versus this more kind of formal coaching relationship? Do you use one for other things and…just I’m curious.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yeah well for me coaching is a paid relationship. So you get what you pay for. So if you’re looking for very serious advances, executive coaching can be the way to go but that’s not necessarily possible or accessible for everybody and a good mentor should give you an awful lot of what a more formal relationship with a coach should do. So I don’t necessarily know that there’s a huge difference but for me when I have my time my coach that I am paying for, I use that time widely and then mentors, the great part about mentors is typically it’s a give and get sort of relationship. So you may able to offer them something but it’s something that’s just, an mentor’s advice and thoughts and time is freely given. And so I think it’s not a huge difference, there’s just a few subtleties, I don’t know if that’s a helpful answer but that’s how I think of it.
Scott Ingram: Yeah yeah good thoughts and I think sometime just paying for it comes with a higher level of commitment right. This means something, I’m going to get a lot out of it, versus something that’s typically mentors are much more informal. So talk about maybe a big challenge you’ve had to face or a time that you struggled and how you go through that.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well I think it’s very similar to the back in the Johnson & Johnson days. So I was very early on in my career and going through some enormous personal challenges and I just didn’t know how to sort separate that and not wear it on my sleeve in my workplace so it was a really rough time. I was a single mother and I didn’t any family anywhere near me and trying to sort of go through the reality of being on my own, having to make a way for me and my little baby girl and trying to sort it all out by myself. So I was really ill equipped to deal with a lot of those challenges and actually, I’m far enough removed from it now it actually makes me laugh.
But boy it was…it was pretty funny. Thank goodness for a good boss. Shout out to my old boss, Steve George, for putting up with me and for J&J for being a safe place to work.
Scott Ingram: Yeah I mean how did you get through that other than children have a tendency to grow older and things get a little bit easier?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Oh yeah well she first of all, my daughter Murphy, is the best person in the whole wide world. She’s amazing, I’m just really lucky that she was such a great kid and she still is. So for me it was really just, it was the people around me and I’m a person of faith so my relationship with God was really the key, just the grace in my life that I’ve been shown, that’s made me very grateful and thankful for all the things that I have and just the people that God put into my life as a result of that. So my coach Riv is one of those people, friends and family around us. When I met my husband he was just the best, really thankful for how I met him and what transpired but also exercise is so important. I’m a big believer in yoga and I love to run half marathons, all be it very slowly and so just taking good care of myself and the people that I was surrounded with really helped sort of breakthrough which is great and I’m very thankful for that, so that’s why I try to do that for others as well.
Scott Ingram: Yeah. So like exercise what other kind of core routines do you have that support you throughout the day or the week?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well I think in the morning it’s coffee and some more coffee. and then maybe a little more. Not too much though but I do really enjoy a cup of coffee in the morning especially if it’s during the time when it’s quiet in the morning. You know this morning at 5:30 it was still dark out, the dogs were not yet going crazy and I could have some coffee and spend some time journaling. So one of the important habits that I have was something that Riv taught me which is around journaling. So the importance of journaling is spending time with the number one person who effects your success and that is you. So spending time reflecting on how things have gone, what challenges you’re facing, observations about your day. You know what was frustrating, where did you show up as the person that you aspire to be and I really found out, the funny thing was during that journaling time you learn an awful lot about how you want to prioritise your day, what you’re intentions are. So I try to every morning do that and just set up my intentions.
I do love to run in the morning when I can, with my job I often have to run in the evenings or at a lunch time but morning runs is usually when I feel the best, it’s just not always possible but trying to do something, some yoga stretches is a good thing too.
Scott Ingram: Is that disrupted morning, is that just a symptom of being on the West Coast?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well I just think it’s reality right. You want to get right to your work day and I don’t really like running alone in the dark. So…I’m kind of a wimp that way. Well we live on the edge of a regional park where we have coyote and mountain lions and rattle snakes and stuff so I don’t really feel like being out there alone in the dark. So usually it’s just sort of like if I can sneak one in at lunch or after work that’s when I do it.
Scott Ingram: Nice nice. I’m curious about the journaling is, do you have much structure to that? I mean you talked about a lot of different ideas or is it pretty free form?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: No it’s actually pretty structured. So…and that’s something else that’s interesting, just around being determined and to have some, my old boss Keiffer Goldstein called it grit and I think for journaling time it’s just really about just being persistent with it. You’ve got to do it and there’s days that I don’t want to and some days you can look back in the journal and see that I really didn’t want to journal because there isn’t much there but I usually start with some important affirmations about the person that I want to be. So I have every day I write down who I want to be and when I’m interacting with others the qualities I want to exhibit and when things are working ideally this is who I am. And so I sort of reaffirm that every day and then I go down to, okay what did I notice, so it’s very structured like what I was aware of yesterday, today so far and the next one is, where did I get frustrated or where did I lose energy because the whole goal is journaling is around peace and around making sure you can serve your energies.
So when your energy is gone, or strained, or at a low point you’re so more likely to overreact or not be at your best. So to be at your best you have to have a high level of energy and so the goal of journaling is to try to element those leaks of energy out of your life. So when you get frustrated, you’re losing energy and so I try to say, okay where did I get frustrated and a lot of times they’re the very same things. Like it could be a traffic situation or whatever frustrates you, think about it right. We all have those little triggers and so trying to get a handle on those helps you, oh gosh I really got frustrated at these things this week, oh and guess what I didn’t exercise or I wasn’t eating very well. Hmmm maybe I should make a change because you know what, the only person that can change this stuff is you. So I’m the only one that can change my situation by doing those things so as I start to observe what’s going on around me, what frustrates me, it helps me make a change if something’s really bugging me or maybe it’s something to talk to my coach about.
And then the next is, okay where did I do a really good job? Like where was I the person I want to be? Because those situations are really, you want to have some positive reinforcement so I do that and then you look at it, I remember the moment I had this, “Oh my gosh look at that”, and I remember talking to my coach about it and he just laughed at me, he’s like, “I knew you’d figure it out eventually.”
A lot of times this situations that are most frustrating are really the situations you’ve been put in so that you can be the person you want to be. I was like, “Oh yeah gosh. I hate you.” and he goes, “Be careful what you wish for.”, people say it a lot of times but it’s true, for me what I found was the situations that were repeating themselves and were really annoying were opportunities for me to be the person that I want to be, the version of myself that’s the better version and so…that’s the structure and then I like to end with what’s my intention for the day. It can be a list of things you have to do and it also could just be a sense of accomplishment, how you want to end the day and did you live up those qualities that you aspire towards.
Scott Ingram: Nice and so we’ve talked about pieces kind of along the way but I’m interested kind of more holistically do you have particular ways that you structure your day or your week?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yes I try to, we all work at companies where there’s an important need to catch up with folks internally and especially if you’re dealing a large group of accounts, with customers success people, account management folks that might be integral to your success, product teams those internal catch ups are very important and I never like to be overly rigid because I want to be able to be accessible. I do work remote a lot because I travel of course for my customers but I also work out of a remote office, I’m in the office usually 1 to 2 days a week but it’s important to stay up to speed with people. So I do a lot of video conferencing, a lot of notes on slack and then I also believe that it’s really important though when it’s possible those regular sort of check ins, I try to reserve those for a Monday. I try to keep Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday open for customers and then Friday is what Friday is, you know customers, it’s people, whatever you need but Monday is the day I try to stick to those internal syncs.
And I also don’t, I try not to have any big important events the day after a vacation. So it’s really bad to come back from a long vacation and you have this huge presentation due the next morning. I have flopped flat on my face as my colleague, Ian Hopping, could attest to in one of those situation. so that’s a big rule I have, no big meetings after a vacation, the day after. And then also when I’m travelling, which is another challenging thing that you had asked me about, I just to try to stay up to speed, I try to sort of look at the emails, look at the responses I need to generate and prioritise them so that’s important. And I’m a big believer in not being constantly on email because I think that’s very disruptive, so I try to have a block of time where I get some work done, then I might go in and check my emails for an hour or two and then go back to the do list. So it’s important to not have those constant distractions on your mobile device or at your desktop.
Scott Ingram: Yeah good stuff. I’m glad you talked about the travelling, I find that always throws a wrench in the works. What about your information diet?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: So it’s funny I really try to stay current but I also don’t. I try not to sucked in to too much because a lot of times the constant news diet can be very frustrating. I mean I love LinkedIn to stay up to date with my professional networks in the companies that I follow, that I find interesting or my customers. So that’s one thing, I realise that’s sort of an application, but it’s an important one for me. And I also try to read things that challenge my perspective from a geo-political perspective and I think it’s funny the election sort of opened people’s eyes to the fact that you do want to read different things and so I have my usual things that I listen to and read. I love Zero hedge, is one of my favourites, I love the Wall Street Journal, it’s a really important one for me, I like Jerusalem Post, I like the Drudge report just for the sheer fact that it’s always interesting and catchy, I like Bright Bard and I listen to [inaudible] 40:11 when I can, mostly on the app because I can’t usually listen on the radio.
Scott Ingram: That’s interesting, that’s very eclectic.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: I know right. Well that’s what I’m saying, I always try to keep current and do things that challenge. My favourite things are my discussions with friends where we share different political views because I find that I learnt the most from people who have a different perspective and they challenge me and as long as they can have a conversation without getting mad, it’s really fun to do it that way.
Scott Ingram: Yeah yeah well I think we all need a little bit more of that in a constructive way and need to get a little bit out of the echo chamber. So it sounds like you’ve actually found a pretty good strategy for that and are being productive in those conversations.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Doing my best.
Scott Ingram: What about different tools and apps? You mentioned LinkedIn, are there others like that that you can’t live without?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well my personal hobby is wine, so I’m actually a trained sommelier. So for me Instagram is my obsession. So I love Instagram, I love my wine friends on Instagram. I’ve met a lot of them now finally in real life. So that’s, Instagram’s probably my favourite. I couldn’t live without my phone’s alarm which is really amusing, I love Yelp and Open table but not surprising when you’re a food lover or a wine lover excuse me, food goes with it. And I still like Pokémon Go.
Scott Ingram: Well you’ve stayed with that?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Dude I’m like level 27 almost. I’m doing pretty good, I’m very impressed.
Scott Ingram: Awesome. Well I’ve been waiting for you to open the wine bottle topic. How did that come about? It’s not everybody that I talk to that is so into it that they’ve become a sommelier.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yeah well it was maybe not the best course of action for my pocket book right but…
well it was my old neighbour back in New Jersey, Dave Morris, a dear friend of ours and his wife Charity, we shared a back yard and we were always together with our families, the kids and just wonderful friends and whenever we were with them and I would drink some wine that he had with them it was delicious. So I got curious about the wine that he liked and I wanted to learn more. What he explained to me is that, “Hey Jacquelyn if you like a particular wine chances are you’ll like another wine that’s well made from the same area of the country or the world.” I was like, “Oh gosh that’s interesting.” and so I started to learn a little bit more about it. We started to actually buy wine and collect it if you will, just from the standpoint from having a case or two on hand, I wouldn’t call it much of a collection but that led to my husband then building a wine cellar in our basement a year or two later, starting to get more interested in different kinds of wine, attending different event, you know buying wine online. And then it really the first trip that our family ever took was to Napa in 2009, where we just fell in love with the area and wanted to learn more about wine and at some point my husband recognised that I was, I mean I’m an engineer by education, so I can geek out with the best of them.
And so I became wildly interested in this and so for Christmas on year my husband got me a membership in the American Sommelier Association and part of that was just really attending classes and training. So I joined American Sommelier and I started going to classes one night a week in New York City for a couple of years and went through different foundation classes around grapes and regions of the world and then started to do some novice blind tasting before we moved to California and not surprisingly we did move to an area of the country that’s instrumental in that, in Sonoma County and our eldest daughter is actually working in the wine industry. She graduated from UC Davis’s viticulture and enology program last June and that came out of that first trip to Napa. When she came home at the age of 16, a couple of months later and proudly announced, “Mommy and Daddy I know what I want to do. I want to be a wine maker.” and we said, “What?”, I said, “Yes.”, so I’m a strategy kind of person, I deal with [cross talk] 44:36
Scott Ingram: good things right.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well that’s what I thought, my husband’s an operations executive who promptly squashed my big vision and said, “Whoa hey wait a second here. Let’s plan this out.”, and I thought, “You and your plans. C’mon.”
Scott Ingram: Details.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: It all worked out.
Scott Ingram: That’s awesome, what a great great story and I know exactly what we will do when our paths cross in person.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yes I agree with that one right there.
Scott Ingram: So I’m curious, do you have, is there a particular sales philosophy or style that you feel like you subscribe to?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: I love the Sandler method. I’m a big Sandler fan. I think it’s fantastic, it’s sort of embodies the things I had been doing without realising it was part of Sandler’s technique. So it fit really nicely with my philosophy.
Scott Ingram: Nice and then how would you describe your style or the way that you practice Sandler?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: I’m pretty fearless, I’m not afraid of asking the questions, I’m not afraid of digging into why a customer or a prospective customer’s feeling pain. I just…I don’t really get intimidated, the genesis of that was pretty funny. It was an interview for a promotion I gotten at Johnson & Johnson and my old boss, Phil Armenio, said to me in the interview, he said, “Describe a situation for me that you’re intimidated by and what you would do to handle it?” and Phil was from Italy, he’s from Bari, and he has this great accent, I love that guy. And I sat there and I really thought about it and this wasn’t bravado, this wasn’t, I wasn’t trying to do this for effect, I sat there and I thought for a second, I was like, “You know I can’t really think of anything.”, I said, “But if I do I’ll call you back and let you know.” and I genuinely really couldn’t think of anything and I heard one time, I maybe read it from somebody that when you faced very difficult situations in your life there’s just not much that intimidates you anymore, it’s just sort of like, “Mmm okay. Alright here we go”.
Scott Ingram: Yeah so I think I probably know the answer to this but what motivates you or what’s your why?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Wine of course. We talked about wine. No it’s my family and it’s everything I do I do for them.
Scott Ingram: Is there something that you believe that the average sales rep would think is crazy?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Oh a lot of the people I work with today think I’m crazy for how much I ask for for our services and our software or how much I try to sell and this isn’t like, if anybody’s who’s my customers are listening it’s not about trying to get more money that is appropriate, it’s just extracting the maximum price that’s viable, that makes sense, that provides value back to the customer. So it’s really about asking for the price that makes sense and I find that a lot of times people, the first thing they want to do is, “Oh we’ll just cut the price.” and I never know why that is because that’s not the point.
Scott Ingram: Yeah you know it’s funny, I have a personal philosophy that I never negotiate with myself, I think it’s fascinating that so many sales people they’re preparing your proposal and then they’re discounting before they’ve even shown it to the customer and that seems insane to me.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Oh yeah that’s actually it a much more eloquent way of putting it, the way you’ve put it and I completely agree with you.
Scott Ingram: Yeah what about the flip side, is there something that they believe that you think is crazy?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: I think when people hear “No” they just assume, “Okay it’s no, move on”, to me a no is always an opportunity to ask what they want.
Scott Ingram: Mhmm. Talk about that some more.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well I think, you know, obviously there are situations when a prospective customer says no that okay really means no, that’s fine. You know and it’s just to me it’s also an opportunity to go deeper and I think a bit of a corollary to that is if you’ve lost a deal, so let’s say your company tried to sell a solution to a prospective customer, they signed with a competitor or a similar company and they signed a contract for a year, well just because you lost that round doesn’t mean you shouldn’t stay in touch with that person and to provide value over time because you can always win that business back and I’ve had that situation happen to me in the last 2 years where we were competitive situations where we had lost a prior to my rival where we stayed in touch with the prospective customer and several times now have actually been the victor in the next time around. So I get that no means no but at the same time there’s, depending on where you’re at in a negotiation or a particular conversation, they could be seeking more information from you, a concession, more value and so you want to uncover that instead of just taking the no at the face value and moving on. You’d want to ask the questions, uncover the motivation, uncover the reasons and then you can make an assessment as to when you might be back in touch but it’s never really over is my point. Is you can always reapproach that situation.
Scott Ingram: Yeah yeah interesting and I don’t why you just prompted this question but I had a great conversation with Deborah [inaudible] 49:58 in an earlier conversation and one of the things she was thinking about was what’s the end game. Right how do you complete your sales career? have you thought about that at all?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: No I haven’t really but I have thought about it in this way. So my goal over the course of my sales career has always been those relationships with people who have bought a solution from me in the past that would buy something again from me that they needed if I was selling it in a heartbeat. Well almost without question or that they would recommend me to the person in their organisation who might have a need for it. So I’ve always sought to be that person that they trust, that they would come back to, again that definition of success and so I do try to emulate that and it is a long game. So if the first time I’m speaking to a brand company that, okay maybe they don’t have a need for solution, but I’m talking to the person who looks at those technologies or those solutions and keeps them in mind when there is an ARF or when there’s a situation that comes up…
And so the first time you’re on the call with somebody or the second time it may not happen right away and if you’re really interested in the long game, you’re going to solidify your rapport, you’re going to provide value in the way on content or an interesting event that you can invite them too, regardless if they’re doing business with you. A lot of times people will treat their customers really well but don’t really have anything to offer their prospective ones and I think it’s important to do that but I think for me, the end game beyond that, I suppose someday you’ll find me a little hunched over, grey haired and pouring wine in a tasting room or something. You never know.
Scott Ingram: That adds up. What about, what are the most important decisions or lessons you’ve had to learn to get where you are today?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Oh yeah so I was a big big proponent of everything is else is somebody else’s fault. You know everything that’s going around me is somebody else’s fault, that was a while ago and I had to learn that the biggest obstacle to success is the person that was looking back at me in the mirror. That’s a tough one to realise but you realise that no, this is not someone else, this is on me and so that was the big lesson for me that, it’s been really instrumental I think.
Scott Ingram: Yeah that’s a great one. So I think this is a pretty natural transition we’re starting to get into that kind of advice space, I mean, so what advice would you give to somebody that’s maybe just starting out in a sales career today?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well I think the most important skill that you can develop is listening and then being able to ask really good questions as a follow up to what you’ve heard and then listen to the answers to those questions that you’ve asked. So I think listening is the number one thing, I wish I had learned that much earlier than I did. So that’s the most important thing and then I think you have to be yourself, and when I say be yourself it’s just really gets to authenticity. So you can’t pretend to be someone that you’re not and so it’s really best to just be yourself and to have that stand on its own. And this is being embracing your flaws and magnifying them so that you act like a buffoon but look you are who you are and if you like yourself, it’s best to be yourself. So be yourself and listen to people and ask good questions, thoughtful questions and maybe this is a little trite but just be kind. Kindness and respect have become short on quantity lately it seems in some places.
Scott Ingram: I love it. Good stuff. What about somebody who is a little bit further along? So they’ve been playing the sales game for a while and either their doing well but they know that there’s better, there usually is, or maybe they’ve hit a rough patch and they’re just kind of struggling to break through. What advice do you have for folks in that spot?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: I think realising that the number one person who affects your success is yourself and be willing to look at what might be standing in the way is one thing to do. Also you can’t be too hard on yourself, so it’s one thing to sort of look in the mirror and say, “Ah okay so I really should’ve done this better.”, that’s okay, take that but then move on. Like there’s no reason to be a punching bag for yourself, so don’t focus on that but just…okay I own it, now let’s move on, let’s do something different because you can’t control your circumstances but you can control your reaction to them and so we all have had deals that have gone away or people that have beat us to the top if we’re being competitive. That happens but I think that you have to be willing to say, “Okay so what could I do differently to make the best out of a situation?”. So again you can’t control the circumstances but you can absolutely control your reaction. I always advise, if somebody’s further along in their career and they’re interested, to get a coach because a coach can make all the difference and really listen to them. That’s one piece of advice and I think also…it’s just realising that if you keep getting the same results from the same way of doing things maybe it’s time to change a bit of the way that you do things and seek some advice of someone you trust to change it.
Scott Ingram: Yeah and going back to your coach advice, all coaches aren’t created equal. Well how do you suggest people go about kind of finding and vetting a coach?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well I think one of the best ways of doing that is really to ask someone that you trust. So if you know someone that has worked with a coach that can be the best thing. So that personal referral can be good. You can, you know, I think if you’ve known anybody who’s had a relationship with a coach that’s a great way to start. I think the second way is a lot of times people in HR might have good examples of people who could be coaches. So if you have nobody that’s ever worked with one, somebody in your personnel or HR department might have a good lead as well and then LinkedIn is another good place to start to look around for people as well.
Scott Ingram: Yeah good ideas. And then what’s the vetting process?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: I think you have to have a conversation with them and understand, first of all what your personal goals are for coaching, so you’ve got to know…so I’ve coached people, I do that in my spare time, between wine and selling, which is really not a lot of time left to sleep and such but really that conversation, feeling that you have a good connection or rapport with them is important and then understanding success stories. How you work with them, you know, what the contractual obligations look like if you will.
So if you’ve got to sign up for something a year in advance or if it’s something where it’s month to month. So just looking at what are their obligations to you. What do you hope to get out of it. Because if you don’t know what you hope to get out of it, it’s going to be very difficult for you to ascertain if a coach can help you get there. And then just what the medium for it is. Are you meeting in person, or is it over the phone. So understanding that, making sure you feel comfortable with it and making sure that you have some confidence that you can help you get there. You also have to be committed to doing the work though because being in a relationship with an executive coach is not easy. It’s often time consuming and very painful because you realise that if you’ve been blaming anything outside of yourself what’s going on it can be sometimes very emotional to have to face up to it. It’s not easy.
Scott Ingram: Yeah
Jacquelyn Nicholson: It’s good though.
Scott Ingram: Good advice and good expectations setting I think too, that’s great. What about, what would you want to know of top sellers in other organisations? In other words like what questions should I be asking of the other folks that I interview?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Sure, well this might be a tactical one but it’s something that I struggle with is those deals or customer relationships that never really go anywhere but they never go away. How to manage those relationships, those leads if you will? I find, and maybe this Nudge sponsors I’ll look into, but I really do find myself wondering like, “How do you deal with this stuff?” like how do you manage it? And then I think some of the questions you’ve asked me I really want to hear their answers to as well.
Scott Ingram: Awesome awesome. Yeah that is a question because at the end of the day it kind of comes down to focus and what are you putting your time and energy into and how do you save some of that and effectively use that with the folks that aren’t hot?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yeah
Scott Ingram: Or aren’t right now, you know there’s some potential. Boy I tell you the ones that, you’re right, it’s not no but it’s not yes, what do you do with that?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Exactly.
Scott Ingram: That’s awesome. Who’s the most successful sales person you know personally?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: I think I’m going to have to say Paul [inaudible] 59:23 who’s my colleague at Percolate, who’s going to end the year ahead of me, I’m pretty sure.
Scott Ingram: Uh hoh. I didn’t get the number 1?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: That’s okay. Sorry.
Scott Ingram: No no not at all not at all. What makes Paul so great/ Why would you name Paul?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well it’s funny enough I knew Paul back when he used to book meetings for me and my peers. So he was sort of a business development inside sales person when we first met about 6/7 years ago and I’ve just been privileged to watch him get mentored and do these activities that I’m been talking about throughout this interview and then things of his own and then just taking it to the next level constantly
and dealing with large complex sales situations and just in a way that I just really admire, I love his tenacity, I love his enthusiasm and I just love that I’ve seen it all unfold and I just have so much respect for him and I’m a huge fan. And If somebody had to be beat me I am damn glad it was somebody like him because he is awesome.
Scott Ingram: Good stuff.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: I’m not done yet though, you never know.
Scott Ingram: That’s right. We’ve still got a few days.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: No but he is just amazing, so shout out to Paul if you hear this.
Scott Ingram: Awesome well we’ll have to let him know for sure. So Jacquelyn now’s the trickiest question. So how do we summarise this? If you could boil everything down that we’ve talked about today and create sort of a short term challenge for the person listening to this that is ready to do more than just listen, they’re ready to act, they want to improve themselves and make a difference, what would you suggest they do?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well I think I’ve touched on it maybe just a little bit but it’s really just around taking responsibility. So we’re all responsibly for our choices, regardless of the circumstances that we find ourselves in and there’s no reason to blame anybody for anything and you should never assume that you no control over a situation because you always have control over what’s going on because you control how you respond to it. And so I think one of my favourite motivational speakers is this former prisoner of war, a guy from the United States Navy, Charlie Plum, and he gives the really wonderful talk called “Who packed your parachute?” And he said you can choose happens, you can choose sadness, you can choose success, you can failure and you can choose to give away the choice and I just believe very strongly in that. It’s something that has, even when I and I don’t know how many times I’ve listened to it, it’s probably like at least 35 times in my life, if I’m really having a rough day I might go back and listen to parts of that talk because it always get my head up out of where it doesn’t belong which is…the gloom and doom. “Why me?
Why’s this happening to me?” and yeah it’s like, no suck it up and he gives this really beautiful story about how he has spent six and a half years in a communist prison camp and he goes hiking and camping with this guy who’s been blind since birth and they both realise on this trip that they were better off having gone through those experiences than if they hadn’t. They were emotionally healthier people. Which is…and I certainly haven’t faced any challenges to that magnitude and so I believe that life is a choice, we have a choice around how we respond to the things around us and to me that has really started taking shape in a big way with my advice for people to journal.
So taking that time out each day can be the morning, it can be at night, a lot of times people like to start off their morning that way and it’s spending time…figuring out who you want to be, where that energy’s going to come from and just preserving that energy so that you can be the best version of yourself and that journaling I really helpful, it helps you observe what’s going on and it also can help make your days more productive. So when you really boil down, like okay what does my day look like today? [inaudible] 01:03:40 way more productive. So my coach Riv and I talk about power versus force. So when you’re powerful, power is really an awesome thing but we were trying to force things it doesn’t always end so well and that journaling has helped me really have that perspective and to really put the responsibility squarely in my camp because I’m the one that can make something happen or make not very good.
There’s a really great movie quote line, so I don’t know if I can say it because there is a swear word in it.
Scott Ingram: Go for it. That’s the warning.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Okay there’s the warning, you’ve been warned. So it’s not that bad. So there’s this great old movie that Ted Danson and…from the 80’s maybe called Cousins and the actor whose name is escaping me right at the moment his dad gives this line, he’s like, “Son you’ve got one life. You can either make it chicken shit or chicken salad.” That’s a good one but anyway that’s….you got one choice.
Scott Ingram: And we’re going to finish there.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: We’re trying to have a little chicken salad.
Scott Ingram: That’s awesome. Jacquelyn you mentioned the talk by the former POW, is that something that we can find a link to? I would love to share that in the show notes?
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Yeah absolutely. So actually Charlie Plumb and he’s on LinkedIn, he does motivational speaking and I think the recording that I’m referring to called “Is you parachute packed?” it was aired on a radio program years and years ago that was run by Focus on the family and I think it’s available online and I can email you the link encase you want to put a link out to some people.
Scott Ingram: Yeah that would be awesome. Jacquelyn this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing your insights and your time and we work to finish up the year here.
Jacquelyn Nicholson: Well it’s my pleasure Scott. It’s been a privilege to talk with you and happy holidays and happy New Year to everybody.
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